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cjjpeterson 23 ( +1 | -1 )
Danish Gambit What do people think about this opening? I have tried it a couple times with some success, but I have a hard time countering it when black. Is there a good way to counter it? Thank you.
far1ey 34 ( +1 | -1 )
1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Bc4 cxb2 5.Bxb2 d5! 6.Bxd5 (exd5 and then the bishop cant attack f7 when black gets an easy game.) Nf6 7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Qxd8 Bb4+ winning back the queen. I think this is the best way to combat the gambit because it simplifies everything leading into a pawn up endgame for black.
ganstaman 44 ( +1 | -1 )
Well, while I have heard that that is a good endgame for black, he is not a pawn up. On moves 6 and 7 he loses the two pawns he gained just before.

I also like 1. e4 e5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 Nf6. You won't be forced to defend as much against white's big attack, and you get a decent game that white wasn't prepared for (make your opponent unhappy). I don't see this being so popular, but I'm still not sure what's wrong with it, if anything.
far1ey 4 ( +1 | -1 )
Ah my mistake. Thanks for that ganstaman.
djole73 57 ( +1 | -1 )
Im playing Danish with black pieces, because my respond to 1. e4 is 1...e5. I also found main variations of Danish wery dangerous for black, so i look forward for some "secret" weapon and i think i found it. So 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd 3. c3 Qe7! Rare variation. I found only 44 games in megabase, but black scores 62%!!! Rubinstein, Capablanka, Speelman played this variation with black so it cant be bad. From modern players GM Mikhalevski used this variation. 3...Qe7 will surprise your opponent and white will have to gambit a pawn or get an inferior position.
loreta 10 ( +1 | -1 )
One way against it As Black, I do not accept Danish gambit (after 3. c3) and (in quick games) White snarls up often :-)
sf115 7 ( +1 | -1 )
I think declining the gambit (after 3. c3) is the most sensible thing to do.
ganstaman 30 ( +1 | -1 )
Ok, so there are many suggestions for declining to play 3...dxc3. But what to play instead? There are several choices:

3...Nf6 (what I like)
3...Qe7 (what djole73 likes)
3...d3

There's gotta be more, right? So long as white doesn't get pawns on d4 and e4, I think black will do fine enough.
ccmcacollister 295 ( +1 | -1 )
ALEKHINE .... Made remarks in support of the "Semi-Danish" for White, which would answer the line far1ey gave up top, with 4.Nxc3 rather then 4.Bc4 .
That is the formation that I tend to favor myself, having found that early in the opening it is often more advantageous to have remaining the Bc1, rather than playing of Bb2 too soon. It remains useful at Bc1 for BxNh6 if one goes there, or Bg5 if indicated.
Thus, moreso than for the Question of one more pawn yielded or not, I favor the Semi- for position of the QB.
I play the sequence as 1.e4 e5 2.d4! exd4 3.Nf3 and allow BL's response to dictate whether 4.c3 or 4.Bc4 will follow. Or at times even just 4.Nxd4 . This move order has seemed to give better results, and also prevents some of the usual Danish 'antidotes' used by BL.
One interesting way to meet the Danish-related-et al lines, that I've seen in blitz is to play an early ...Bb4+/ c3 dxc3/ and playing of the BL Knights to Nbc6 & Nge7, for something a bit different.
Also the Lasker-like idea of an early ...Bc5, & ...Bb6 provides good play for BL.
***
It's a trappy opening system, and there are a number BL must look out for. Also there are a number of "just bad ideas" that present themselves, and one of the most common seems to be playing of ...h6. This all makes it great fun for Blitz contests. Yet it can be difficult even in corr games, & BL must play with the greater care, imo.
***
ganstaman I would tend to play ...e5 vs your Nf6. I've found WT is usually well served to adopt the tactic of pushing e5 to attack the N as soon as the option presents itself, as a general goal of this opening complex. And here of course, WT can even recoup his pawn. Tho as you say, it will be less familiar (perhaps becoming rather French-like; or like the Nimzovich Sicilian's ..Nf6, which is about the last thing I'd hope to see as WT, if I were not already a French player :) and if cxd4 then it does close down an attacking line for WT and BL can try to make some center with his d-pawn. Still I do like the WT position very much with or without an immediate pawn recover. Personally I'd probably grab it back there.
***
djole73 Versus your 3...Qe7 , I havent actually looked to see what the GM's did against it. But my immediate inclination is to say that as WT I would continue my natural development in some manner ... and not concern myself in the least with a loss of a pawn. Perhaps just 4.Nf3 Qxe4+ 5.Be2 then 6.o-o etc and natural moves like Re1 may provide BL some difficulties. I have to like WT since BL has no pieces out, Except his Queen ... and it might be said, "His KING?!" }8-)
Whether justified to say so would remain to be seen.
I am wondering too if there will not be a more pressing move order for WT to play, as the Nf3 was off the cuff. Hope to get to look into it some more soon/later.
***
bogg 23 ( +1 | -1 )
A standard method of defense in the type of position under discussion is for Black to play d6, Nc6, Qd7, and Nd8, not necessarily in that order. The N@d8 defends Black's weak points and removing it from c6 allows Black to cover d5 by playing c6 when needed.

CTC (Bogg)
ganstaman 285 ( +1 | -1 )
I semi-analyzed 3...Nf6 in the past. I haven't read this stuff in a while, so I take no credit if it's wrong, but if it's right I'll take some.

From my posts on chessgames.com: -> www.chessgames.com

1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 Nf6!?
I see only one game like this so far: -> www.chessgames.com . However, in this game after 4.e5, it continued Ne4. I would think that 4.... Qe7 would be better, followed by d6.

White has many choices for his fourth move, but I like all of them for black. Any move that doesn't defend the e4 pawn is followed by 4....Nxe4.

4.Nd2 meets dxc3 and 5.bxc3 leaves white down a pawn with bad queenside pawns and no better development than black.

4.Bd3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 may transpose to normal Goring Gambit positions (I don't really know them well), but I feel that the bishop of d3 instead of c4 really takes a lot away from white's position, making it less likely that he got compensation for the pawn.

4.Qxd4 Nc6 and now the queen must go to d3 or e3 to keep the e4 pawn protected. But black is better developed and I think the pawn at c3 will really be pain to white's queen's knight.
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This met the response: I've seen a few games that go something like this: 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 Nf6 4. e5 Qe7 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 d5 7. Be2 Ne4 8. cxd4.

It's a game. White's better here.
------------------------
To which I said: Hmmm, I'm going to look at 6...Bg4 instead (1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 Nf6 4. e5 Qe7 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 Bg4). At first glance it may be good, but I'll try to analyze a few lines when I get back (unfortunately, I seem to keep on choosing the worst moves for white, I hope I can overcome my bias :) ).

So, I started to look at that 6...Bg4.

7.0-0 dxe5 8.Re1 Nbd7 9. h3 (9.cxd4 0-0-0 10.dxe5 Nxe5) Bxf3 10.Qxf3 0-0-0 and being down two pawns white may try 11.cxd4 but will run into Qb4.

Better may have been 8.cxd4 but I like Nbd7 9.dxe5 Nxe5 10.Re1 Nfd7 11.Bf4 0-0-0.

So maybe a different 7th move for white? 7.cxd4 dxe5 8.dxe5 Qb4+. After 9.Nc3 or 9.Nbd2, I think Ne4 can get interesting. As long as black keeps his queen from being trapped, I think things are at least equal (and definitely enough tactics to be exciting). Also, 9.Bd2 Qxc4 10.exf6 gxf6 leaves black up a pawn and in a position to fianchetto his king's bishop and be safe IMO despite having a pretty bad pawn structure.

Another try in this line would be 8.0-0 Be6 9.Bxe6 (9.d5 Bg4 and I think the pawn is less useful on d5) Qxe6 10.dxe5 Nfd7 and black should be able to develop and castle safely with queens still on the board.

I put some of this into Chessmaster 8000, and it recommends 6...dxe5 7.0-0 c5 8.Ng5 Be6 where black gets doubled e pawns but a 2 pawn advantage. (Actually, it prefers 5.cxd4 d6 6.f4 Nd5 7.Nf3 dxe4 8.fxe4 Be6 9.Bd3 Qb4+ and then I forget, but I like black's pawn structure better here anyway).
djole73 34 ( +1 | -1 )
Hi ccmcacollister This is all right what you wrote.

"Perhaps just 4.Nf3 Qxe4+ 5.Be2 then 6.o-o etc and natural moves like Re1 may provide BL some difficulties. I have to like WT since BL has no pieces out, Except his Queen ... and it might be said, "His KING?!" "

I agree white is better but after 4. Nf3 i would play d5 and white will lose his pawn for nothing.
sough 6 ( +1 | -1 )
There's also nothing wrong with 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5.
sf115 3 ( +1 | -1 )
what about 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 4. d5
schnarre 12 ( +1 | -1 )
Hmmnnnnn vs 6...d5 I usually played 7. Qxd5, typically trading the Queens off early & going for a more simplified game thereafter.
ionadowman 168 ( +1 | -1 )
In a 1976 monograph... ... By L.M. Pickett, I've found these suggestions for declining the Danish gambit:
3...d5 (as suggested by sough), 3...Qe7 (djole73); 3...d6
3...Nf6 (ganstaman) and 3...Ne7 (apparently an "interesting try" according to some dude named Svenonius, but there's no other info available to me)

The first of these is said to avoid "the early pitfalls of the Danish Gambit, often transposing into lines of the Goring Gambit Declined (GGD). Now, the Goring Gambit Declined can go like this: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 d5
w
... the same position as sough's suggestion, with the Knight moves thrown in. After 5.exd5 Qxd5 6.cxd4 we arrive at the same position that might be reached through declining the Danish: 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.cxd4 Nc6 6.Nf3 ...

Here's a game played on GK 2006 with this line:
White: ionadowman Black: sago
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 d5! 5.exd5 Qxd5
6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3 Bg4 8.Be2 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Qc4 10.Qb3 Qxb3
11.Bxc6+ bxc6 12.axb3 Nf6 13.0-0 0-0 14.Bg5 Nd5 15.Rfc1 Re8
16.Nxd5 cxd5 (Already we have reached the endgame!)
17.Rxc7 Re2 18.Kf1 Rae8 19.Be3 Rxb2 20.Raxa7 Rf8
21.Rd7 Rxb3 22.Rxd5 Ra3 23.Rxa3 Bxa3 24.Ke2 f5 25.Bf4 g6
26.Kd3 Ra8 27.Rd7 Bf8 28.Be5 Ra2 29.Kc4! (Sacrificing 2 pawns in order to close assault in the centre...)
b
29...Rxf2 30.Kd5 Rxg2
31.Ke6 Rc2 32.d5 Rc8 33.d6 Re8+ 34.Kd5 Rb8 35.Ra7 Rd8
36.Kc6 h6 37.Rc7 Bxd6 (Desperate, but d7 had to be stopped. But now White has only the RP to oppose Black's 3P, though his extra bishop is the "right" one, as it can cover the queening square. Otherwise the position would be a draw. But can White eliminate Black's 3 pawns without losing his solitary rook pawn?)
38.Bxd6 g5 39.Be5 Ra8 40.Kd5 Ra6
41.Bd4 f4 42.Ra7 Rxa7!? 43.Bxa7 Kf7 44.Ke5! (+- 44.Ke4 seems to be = only)
44...Kg6 45.Bf2 h4
46.Ke4 Kf6 47.Bb6 Ke6(?) 48.Bd8 1-0
Man, I enjoyed that ending!


loreta 2 ( +1 | -1 )
3. ... d5 I play 3. ... d5 as a rule...
ccmcacollister 30 ( +1 | -1 )
loreta ... That's another advantage of the sequence I play, I think. EG 1.e4 e5 2.d4 ed 3.Nf3 d5 and so 4.Qxd4 so if 4...exe4 5.Qxd8 Kxd8 6.Ng5 :)
an easy game for WT with some advantage, I'd like to believe. I don't know why it hasnt caught on ...
HI again djole73! ... Really? :)
loreta 5 ( +1 | -1 )
Yep, ccmcacollister but after 3. Nf3 I don't play d5 :-)
It's ok with 3. ... Nc6 - familiar Scotch...
loreta 4 ( +1 | -1 )
But... But ... d5 is ok again after 4. c3 (that is, 1. e4 e5 2.d 4 exd4 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. c3 d5!)
ccmcacollister 32 ( +1 | -1 )
loreta...Well, U win transposition-battle ! }8~(
YES, that's a reason I usually play 4.Bc4 there instead of 4.c3 . . . But I guess it is a mark against a Danish, if WT must transpose to a Scotch Gambit, eh };-(
[But I only do it to please my Scottish ancestors, rather than face a wailing ...d5 Banshee-pawn! / That's MY Excuse, and I'll stick with it till a better one comes along...]
}8-)
PS// But, my hat is off to you 8-)