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lynvingen 49 ( +1 | -1 )
Subject: Rock + P's vs. Rock+N

I would like to hear your opinion on the following game: board #6784610




I was playing as black and lost the game after a blunder on move 48.

But would it have possible for black to draw or perhaps even win the game?
I had a nice pawn chain, but didn't managed to make anything out of it.

Thanks

Henrik
lynvingen 3 ( +1 | -1 )
Should mention: It's blacks turn.
magna68 17 ( +1 | -1 )
I would prefer black here. There is no way that white is going to win this position. Black has some chances, pushing the pawns forward. .. f4! looks good here.

cheers
magna68
ionadowman 96 ( +1 | -1 )
Hi lynvingen... ... I think your move 47 was an inaccuracy that lost a tempo, and led to the oversight on move 48.
For readers, the game continued from the diagram position: 42...f4! 43.Kd2! Rd5 44.Nb4 Rh5 45.Na6ch Kd4!? 46.Rb4ch!? Ke5 47.h4 ... reaching this position:
b
47...Kd5? (48.Nc7ch Kc4?)
Was this a change of plan (to go after the b-pawn) - or did Black see something against 47...Rxh4. It seems to me that Black ought not to lose after the rook capture, and might even be winning. It isn't easy to find a continuation for White:
47...Rxh4
48.Nb8 (say) Rh2
49.Nd7ch Kf5!
50.Nxb6 Rxf2ch
51.Ke1 d2ch! or, more prosaically, 51...Rh2, with an easy win.
If instead of the capture at b6 White tries...
50.Ke1, e3 thtreatens mate on the move.
or...
50.Ne7ch! Kg4
51.Rxe4 Rxf2ch
52.Kxd3 b2
53.Nd5 g5 ...
This seems to offer White his best chances, but Black has a big edge after 54.Nxb6 Rxb5; and after rook exchanges by 54.Rb4 Rxb4 55.Nxb4 Kf3 Black can really fancy his winning propects.
Cheers,
Ion
ionadowman 12 ( +1 | -1 )
In my previous posting... That final sequence move 52 (6 lines up from the bottom), should read: 52.Kxd3 Rb2. Sometimes I miss the key...
lynvingen 41 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks for the thorough reply.

I agree, as I'm going through the game again, 47. Kd5 was a strange move. I can't actually remember, why I made that move. But perhaps I wanted to avoid whites king getting access to his b-pawn. However, the right thing to do here is of course to stick to the plan and take the h-pawn.

I had the felling that I could win or at least draw this one. Nice to get it confirmed.

cheers,

Henrik

ccmcacollister 221 ( +1 | -1 )
lynvingen It looks like the ending has been well covered already ... I hope you won't mind, I'd like to use your game to point out to others, a couple of concepts I found interesting, that nearly come up... for the benefit of players who may be just starting to learn R&P endings to note.
One is in the actual game after 37.Kf4, there is a tactical trick for BL. He can immediately play ...g5+!? and then if 38.Kxg5 Rg8+ 39.Kf4?? Rg4#! and this same concept would apply if we added in the moves 37. ...h6 38.h4 g5+ 39.hg5 hg5 40.Kxg5 Rg8+ 41.Kf4?? Rg5#.
Because of that mate threat then, WT would have to play his King to the h-file instead of back to Kf4 to avoid it. In many situations, such a cutoff of the King can be crucial.
So point one I wanted to make is simply for everyone to watch for mating motifs during the endgame. Not to expect the opponent to fall into the mate. Tho they Are very often unexpected by the opponent, but often bring about a win on the strength of needing to be avoided. As in this situation it may also have some good surprise value when he is checked by a pawn that would seem to simply fall to capture. I've won a lot of endgames from the appearance of mating themes that had to be handled
****
As a means of pointing out a situation where this would be especially effective we would only need to move WT's rook from c6 to a6, like this position...




Without working the particulars, it looks at a glance that in that case the WT King moving to the h-file looks to probably be mated [... certainly mated in the case of the a-pawns trading off first]. BL can look to use the two rooks or bring his king to the f-file via e5. It's also clear to see there how the removal of the WT king from the picture would aid in advancing the black center pawns~!
***
The other thing I noticed from that diagramed position was a motif I had never seen before, to mate. A bit of a help-mate, with errors by both sides to get there ... but simply to point out the unusual idea of sac'g one of the Rooks that seems interesting {after being awake all night anyway ... }
If it were to go 37. ...g5+ 38.Kxg5 Rg8+ 39.Kh6 Kf7+ ?! 40.Kxh7? Rh8+! 41.Kxh8 Rh6#

That's a Rook sac I've not seen before
Regards to all, and to all a Good-Night ~!
lynvingen 9 ( +1 | -1 )
Nice point you got there, ccmcacollister!

Hopefully I'll remember this next time.

Bw.

Henrik